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4thSL Twitter

Post by RealJeffSolo on Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:12 pm

Last couple of days I have received some emails about the content of the 4thSL twitter.

I am of the opinion that talking about sports stories, or taking part in a community discussion or highlighting a blog is not out of bounds for the twitter. I am also about writing about 90% of time on that twitter, so I don't think personal opinions are out of bounds either.

I don't post about Amy Whinehouse or the damage Styrofoam cups do to the environment. Its league related, sports related or games related.

That all said I would like to take the criticisms here so I can target the interests better. I would like to avoid further passive aggressive attacks on the twitter, specifically like the one that occurred yesterday morning when someone posted from the 4thSL with inflammatory remarks towards my usage.
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Re: 4thSL Twitter

Post by amoeBae on Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:49 pm

Personally I'd like it to be only 4th string related if it's going to be sports related information. It can get confusing between what's going on in the Madden league and the real NFL. Other random stuff is whatever to me, but it'd be nice to know only 4thstring sports news shoots out of there.

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Re: 4thSL Twitter

Post by Chairman7 on Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:59 pm

I won't be passive aggressive. Just aggressive. Post 4thsl stuff on the Twitter, use your personal account for everything else.
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Re: 4thSL Twitter

Post by RealJeffSolo on Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:15 pm

Rich: I get that and I can make a better effort to distinguish. Problem is the character limit can limit that.

Ken: I don't much care about what you want to see. I am only asking if you feel it is inappropriate to have discussion with other community members or discussions on those real stories.

I am seeking input. I am not taking orders.

{EDIT} That comes off a bit rude, I did not intend that Ken. I only meant to clarify my purpose in posting this.


Last edited by RealJeffSolo on Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:35 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Clarification.)
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Re: 4thSL Twitter

Post by amoeBae on Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:06 pm

Yep character limit is why I prefer it to be just 4thsl sports news and not real sports news combined. Not an order, just how I'd like it to be personally.

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Re: 4thSL Twitter

Post by mikesuszek on Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:26 pm

It's pretty simple. 4thSL should be for the league, not current events stuff.

Also, it's about the league, so it shouldn't get too personal. Everyone has their own accounts for that stuff. So the discussion with others about Madden 12 you had the other day should have been on your personal account, for example. That's my opinion.

Remember that the community Twitter account is for the community. Rule of thumb for everyone: it's not just yours, so never treat it that way. I've actually done play-by-play calling of entire league games on there.

EDIT: Another thing to consider: relevance. It's all about the angle. We discuss real-life sports stuff on 4th String, but in the context of sports video games. For @4thSL, if Reggie Bush goes to the Dolphins, that's relevant in a certain respect to our league "IE: Will he be rated as generously in our league? Is he going to be the same threat at the WR position?"

If you're just discussing sports, it's not relevant to the interests of @4thSL, so take it to your personal account. If you are thinking about things in the context of the leagues we have, then it IS relevant. That makes perfect sense to me.

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Re: 4thSL Twitter

Post by radioheadhead on Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:39 am

No personal opinoins on non-league events.

Only stuff that has to do with the league.

Personal opinions on league stuff is ok - IE Brady throws 6 INT's, I think he should be benched next game, etc.
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Re: 4thSL Twitter

Post by danvitale on Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:32 am

The way I look at it:

The Google Groups mailing facility - should be for use by Admins for general league announcements, notices and links to game summaries on the forums etc. NOTHING ELSE.

The Twitter account - should be for use by Admins for general league announcements game final scores retweets etc, notices and links to game summaries on the forums etc. NOTHING ELSE.

For all of us, personal or not, the FORUMS should the primary focus of everything revolving around the league. Why?

1) It gives us more than 140 characters, the ability to imbed videos, pics etc
2) It's open to everyone - so people who dont follow twitter accounts and dont have access to google groups can see it
3) for the 2nd reason - but this is worth it's weight in gold, the forums allows us to promote the league - if we are expanding to two leagues the FORUMS have to be used to gain interest from people who might decide that they want in.

This league should be open to more people, but the way the likes of Google Groups and Twitter is completely backwards and we need to use the forums to branch out.

The way we are running the league in it's communication is limiting its appeal to prospective 4thsl owners significantly, it's not just to do with one twitter account. Things need to change.
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Re: 4thSL Twitter

Post by RealJeffSolo on Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:46 am

I dont know where this got lost in the annals of history, but this is a personal twitter account guys.

I always wanted to keep this stuff away from my public account. So I used 4thstringcast to do it. When todd started to get the site going, I asked if he would want me to use a different account and he said yes. So then I made 4thsl.

I shared the password with people, and I guess judging from all these comments it has grown to be something else. But don't mistake this for a community tool.

This was the twitter I made to not spam my friends with sports stuff.
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Re: 4thSL Twitter

Post by amoeBae on Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:52 pm

Then maybe it should be @houstonstarboys for your use and there should be an "official" of sorts twitter account for the league then?

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Re: 4thSL Twitter

Post by mikesuszek on Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:42 pm

RealJeffSolo wrote:I dont know where this got lost in the annals of history, but this is a personal twitter account guys.

I always wanted to keep this stuff away from my public account. So I used 4thstringcast to do it. When todd started to get the site going, I asked if he would want me to use a different account and he said yes. So then I made 4thsl.

I shared the password with people, and I guess judging from all these comments it has grown to be something else. But don't mistake this for a community tool.

This was the twitter I made to not spam my friends with sports stuff.

Okay, well that was a fucking awful decision.

This isn't the Jeff Solomon league. So change how you use it, and change its purpose to what it SHOULD be: by/for the league, even if it's only used by a few people (IE: more than one person).

I think enough people have spoken up about this. I just don't like when you ask a question like this, Jeff, but then show resistance. It's like I'm in a trade with you right now!

Like you stated: it has grown to be something else. SO DON'T FORCE IT TO BE WHAT IT SHOULDN'T BE. Don't take ownership! Instead of loving the league, you're loving yourself!

This is so absurdly simple. The fact that it's even a discussion is baffling. Maybe you could stop worrying about your friends/followers and tweet stuff about sports on your personal account because that's what you're interested in.

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Re: 4thSL Twitter

Post by RealJeffSolo on Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:08 pm

Mike this was a perfectly civil dialogue until you came in here with your all caps and totalitarian statements. Don't force upon me what you think my position is. I am not being resistant, I am gathering information and sharing information. You are being antagonistic and I don't appreciate it nor think it is necessary.

Not every thread on every forum needs to break down into a flame war.

If you would like some totalitarian statements here are some you might appreciate. This thread was clean of bold font, cuss words, and personal attacks before you entered the fray.

I appreciate that others are using it, yourself included. I have live blogged games as well. And I am not threatening to take any of that away. I started this thread to get a picture of what people thought the @4thsl was. Not listen to demands and orders or be insulted.

The term personal twitter was brought up several times so I wrote a post to clear up that this was indeed the origin. EDIT: Just remembered, it was @anomaleaguers and we changed it to be shorter and easier to spell.

But you don't get to come here and assert your editorial control over me because you disagree. If I want to use what I made for the purpose I made it then that is my prerogative. And If I want to share it with others that is my prerogative as well.

I like to keep my worlds separate. You don't get to tell me otherwise. You do not have that authority.

Now there is a clear demand from this forum for an account that tracks the league. I respect that, and I will continue to do those things, but I won't do it exclusively.

I will make a better effort to separate the real world from the leagues world. IRL can be expected in future posts.

There is no editor here. Anyone who wants to post from 4thSL can, you need only ask me the password. They can say anything they want as long as it is in the spirit of the account. If you don't like that then don't read it.

You can lock the thread after your follow up tantrum Mike, I've said all I want to.



Last edited by RealJeffSolo on Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:15 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : insert)
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Re: 4thSL Twitter

Post by radioheadhead on Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:08 pm

This is retarded.
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Re: 4thSL Twitter

Post by RealJeffSolo on Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:52 pm

Agreed. I think im just going to change the name of the twitter.
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Re: 4thSL Twitter

Post by mikesuszek on Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:15 pm

RealJeffSolo wrote:Mike this was a perfectly civil dialogue until you came in here with your all caps and totalitarian statements.

Don't force upon me what you think my position is. I am not being resistant, I am gathering information and sharing information. You are being antagonistic and I don't appreciate it nor think it is necessary.

You seriously tear my brain apart sometimes. This is me being a member of the league and sorting out that multiple people have an issue with how you use the Twitter account.

Jeff, I use bold and caps for emphasis, not for typical flame wars bullshit (as I always have, and as you actually are SUPPOSED to). Why do I do it? Because you are impossible. Look at how multiple people in the league have a problem with you and the league Twitter (get over it, it's for the 4th String leagues)

If you would like some totalitarian statements here are some you might appreciate. This thread was clean of bold font, cuss words, and personal attacks before you entered the fray.

That's not what totalitarian means. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism

And while we're at it, NOTHING about what I'm saying (minus what I just did, but I'll get to that) is remotely "totalitarian." Here's what I hate (my hate of forever) is the imbecilic notion that along with something like "commish" of a Madden league comes POWER. I don't have "power," and if I do, I don't abuse it!

I mean FUCK (and don't get all up in arms over swearing. You're a big boy, and you should be used to people like myself or Aussie Chris cursing like sailors, primarily as indicators of emotion/feeling on a matter), I can't exercise one thing as Commish without some dickhead waltzing around going "Oh I see you're abusing your power there!" I am in constant emails DAILY regarding the league, and constantly work with others regarding this league and Madden 12. I WORK WITH OTHERS. And many "others" in and around this league don't like how YOU are doing things!

Now, this is exactly the point where you'd say, "you don't need to tell me, I've been commish before." Well, Jeff. I'm no more "totalitarian" than you were (hell, less so thanks to the "division of power" in the league). That leads to:

And I am not threatening to take any of that away.

Well, it sounded like you were about to, by changing the name of the Twitter account like you just suggested.

That would be the absolute worst, most misguided thing you could possibly do. To avoid you doing that, and then buying time for me to write all this up, I changed the password quick. Don't worry, I have no intentions of "hogging" this like you were about to, I just needed to buy time in case you decided to make that mistake.

The term personal twitter was brought up several times so I wrote a post to clear up that this was indeed the origin. EDIT: Just remembered, it was @anomaleaguers and we changed it to be shorter and easier to spell.

Great! Nobody cares HOW IT STARTED! (By the way, that's just plain stupid if you said "hey, @4thSL which is for the 4th String leagues sounds like a great handle for my personal account!")

What matters is that it IS NOT THAT. This is for the leagues! For the 4th String communities! Hey, thanks for starting all this, but YOU DON'T OWN IT! WE ALL DO!

That's where you're being ridiculous in this, Jeff. Guess what? I made these forums. I made that Wiki over there. If I took your approach, I'd pack those things up for myself. But they're for the league.

But you don't get to come here and assert your editorial control over me because you disagree. If I want to use what I made for the purpose I made it then that is my prerogative. And If I want to share it with others that is my prerogative as well.

THIS is the kind of crap I'm talking about. You, you made this personal. I'm not exercising "editorial control" over you (though I put a temporary stop, let me get to that).

And while we're at it, you're wrong! Here's an email from you, dated 6/4/10:

"Todd has taken the 4th string cast twitter and re purposed it back to its intended purpose.

So future league commentary will be @4thStringNFLeag

Twitter.com/4thStringNFLeag"

So yeah, you helped make it for the league!

I like to keep my worlds separate. You don't get to tell me otherwise. You do not have that authority.

Solution: create a new Twitter account LIKE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO.

Now there is a clear demand from this forum for an account that tracks the league. I respect that, and I will continue to do those things, but I won't do it exclusively.

I will make a better effort to separate the real world from the leagues world. IRL can be expected in future posts.

There is no editor here. Anyone who wants to post from 4thSL can, you need only ask me the password. They can say anything they want as long as it is in the spirit of the account. If you don't like that then don't read it.

You don't own this account. You don't own things that belong to the entire league. I don't either, but I have a much more vested interest in this community than you do, clearly.

You can lock the thread after your follow up tantrum Mike, I've said all I want to.

Yes, TANTRUM. I've typed so many genuinely hurtful things and then deleted them on here. I love when people like you use "oh my god, you're using bold type and ALL CAPS" as some sort of argument. I use it for emphasis, but of course you're pissing me off. You're pissing everyone off!

And I'm keeping this thread open. Because the discussion is certainly far from over.





......And now I see that you've gone and changed the password yourself. That's fucking brilliant.

Dude, you're off your rocker.

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Re: 4thSL Twitter

Post by amoeBae on Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:33 pm

The problem I'm observing and I could totally be wrong about it, so take it with a grain of salt. But after a complaint from a few about telling Jeff to stop using the @4thsl account as a personal account he came on the boards to passive-aggressively see if he could keep using the @4thsl account since it has more followers than his personal account. And now that pretty much everyone that's replied here has stated to keep it 4thsl related he's disappointed and taking his ball home so no one can play...

And just to state my opinion again. I'd much prefer it if it was a league related account. Mainly since it can get confusing seeing NFL and 4thSL related news together from the account. But perhaps since Jeff sees this as his account, that's fine and an actual official league account should be created then. Again just something I think I'm observing but I could be totally wrong so don't take this as a personal attack or anything, just stating it as I see.

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Re: 4thSL Twitter

Post by RealJeffSolo on Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:46 pm

It is an account that anyone can use. My issue is with control. I don't want it controlled.

I saw that someone changed the password so I changed it again. This giant thing was posted after. It would be unreasonable for me to have been expected to understand the motives of the at that time, unknown person who locked me out.

Mike you are welcome to use the account. You are saying some things I don't like but I am not stopping you from saying them. Which is kind of the point.

I am not taking the ball.
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Re: 4thSL Twitter

Post by radioheadhead on Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:59 pm

Jeff,

In the past 2 weeks, you have disrespected the league and all of it's members.

You recently used what everybody in the league (except for you, Captain Exception) thought was the league-wide twitter account to post personal opinions, somewhat aggressive, towards a couple of the key guys in the larger Madden community. Not only was this something that belonged on your own twitter account, but it jeopardized the relationship that 4th String has been building with the wider Madden community. This was excusable, despite showing an extremely poor lack of judgment. But then you follow it up with this thread, unforgiving, despite wide-spread criticism.

This came after a few weeks ago, you used the league-wide e-mail as an advertisement for your own personal blog for a school project. Again, by itself, a completely selfish, thoughtless act, but ultimately forgivable, and certainly the league wide e-mail is not the place. This is not OK. I don't care about your blog, nor do I want you advertising it via an e-mail, let alone to the entire league. Do I e-mail the league every time I design a house? Do I e-mail the league everytime I do an impressive shit? I'm sure 50% of the league cares equally about the impressiveness of my daily poops as they do about your blog.

Each of these issues, on their own, are excusable, but when you start compiling a list of them and putting them together, you start genuinely pissing people off.

You are ticking off members of the 4th String Community on a fairly regular basis now, so I think you need to take a step back and stop taking advantage of things that belong to the collective, not to the personal.

You need to re-evaluate why this league exists, why you are part of it and what you can do for the league, not what the league can do for you.

It's scarily similar to the way that you have compiled your team in the league. Getting 1-up's bit by bit, until we look at your team and it's a All-Pro team, that makes the Madden 12 Eagles look like a bunch of flailing hobos.
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Re: 4thSL Twitter

Post by mikesuszek on Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:08 pm

RealJeffSolo wrote:It is an account that anyone can use. My issue is with control. I don't want it controlled.

Then stop controlling it. You just changed the bio to:

"The 4th Strings Leagues twitter. Follow for updates on big games, big moves, and big news. Maintained by @realjeffsolo"

I saw that someone changed the password so I changed it again. This giant thing was posted after. It would be unreasonable for me to have been expected to understand the motives of the at that time, unknown person who locked me out.

I HAD TO. To stop you from doing essentially what you just did, to buy me time to address your shenanigans. Which I did. You didn't read my last huge-ass post, did you?

Mike you are welcome to use the account. You are saying some things I don't like but I am not stopping you from saying them. Which is kind of the point.

I am not taking the ball.

You already did. See above bio. You're making this "yours," just like the Sports Anomaleaguers and other things you try to use as resume/classroom bullet-points. I don't want your "permission" to use a Twitter account that everyone should be allowed to use without the pretense that it belongs to YOU.

The post I'm responding to? Count how many double-standards are in it.

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Re: 4thSL Twitter

Post by RealJeffSolo on Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:12 pm

It has said that long before tonight.
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Re: 4thSL Twitter

Post by RealJeffSolo on Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:15 pm

I read your huge ass post, but you posted it after the password business. All I saw was that I couldn't sign into twitter.
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Re: 4thSL Twitter

Post by RealJeffSolo on Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:17 pm

mikesuszek wrote:

You're making this "yours," just like the Sports Anomaleaguers and other things you try to use as resume/classroom bullet-points. I don't want your "permission" to use a Twitter account that everyone should be allowed to use without the pretense that it belongs to YOU.

The post I'm responding to? Count how many double-standards are in it.

What does that mean classroom bullet points? Resume? I cant put twitter on a resume.

and you dont need permission. That is the point, I dont want to censor you and I dont want you censoring me.
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Re: 4thSL Twitter

Post by mikesuszek on Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:17 pm

RealJeffSolo wrote:It has said that long before tonight.

Well, that is genuinely "my bad." I am sorry I assumed you just changed it (makes sense in context, doesn't it?).

However, I'd have exactly the same response to it if I'd seen it before today. Ridiculous.

I read your huge ass post, but you posted it after the password business. All I saw was that I couldn't sign into twitter.

Yeah, because I changed it before I wrote all that, so I could buy myself some time before you'd change the username (or the password, for that matter). I just told you that. How do you not understand that?

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Re: 4thSL Twitter

Post by RealJeffSolo on Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:18 pm

I understood. You asked me if I read the giant post. I was answering your question Mike.
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Re: 4thSL Twitter

Post by mikesuszek on Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:19 pm

RealJeffSolo wrote:
mikesuszek wrote:

You're making this "yours," just like the Sports Anomaleaguers and other things you try to use as resume/classroom bullet-points. I don't want your "permission" to use a Twitter account that everyone should be allowed to use without the pretense that it belongs to YOU.

The post I'm responding to? Count how many double-standards are in it.

What does that mean classroom bullet points? Resume? I cant put twitter on a resume.

and you dont need permission. That is the point, I dont want to censor you and I dont want you censoring me.

That's not what censorship is. And I'm not censoring you. I'm trying to keep YOU from making this YOUR Twitter account.

But you shouldn't take your personal stuff onto the @4thSL Twitter account. The league has spoken, and they said, "no, Jeff!" We want league-only stuff. Chris put everything into perspective for you. But I am not convinced you'll get it still.

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